Converting the Religious: Countering claims of successful prophecy

By Bob, TFS Member

We've looked at some issues a believer might raise to support their views. Now let's look at one that has some interesting twists.

On several occasions people have tried to convince me God is real by claiming that successful prophecy proves God must exist. Of course at best it would provide evidence of some supernatural effect, but not that the particular dogmas of some religion are true. Even if a book like the Bible contained some genuine evidence of the supernatural it wouldn't mean the other things in it are right. But the examples of prophecy can easily be explained without invoking the supernatural.

One friend asked me how I explained that Jesus fulfilled the prophecy that the messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Easy enough. Most likely Jesus of Nazareth wasn't born in Bethlehem, but in Nazareth. The gospel writers just assumed it was Bethlehem since that's where the prophecy said the messiah would be born. Since these writers (Matthew and Luke) were clearly convinced that Jesus was the messiah and that the prophecy was true, this was a logical conclusion. Luke went to the trouble of making a conjecture that Joseph had to go to Bethlehem because of a Roman census, although apparently historical records show no indication the Romans ever had a census where people had to go to the city of their birth.

So one way to have an apparent fulfillment is that the claimed event didn't really happen. The more common way is that the prophecy was written after the event. In Isaiah (44:28, 45:1-13) it is written that the Persian king Cyrus would conquer Babylon. And history records that he did! It turns out the original Isaiah lived long before these events, but scholars analyzing the text feel that there were one or more additional authors whose works were added to the text much later. The second one is the one who wrote about Cyrus, and there is no reason to think that it was written before the actual events took place. It doesn't require a miracle to predict something that already happened.

There are lots of such predictions that a believer may point to, so we can't be prepared for all of them. Fortunately we have the internet, where things can be looked up quickly. Normally Google can quickly get you to websites that explain how these could occur without magic. Of course religious sites will say the magic has been proved. If possible, look both types over with your religious friend. If there's both a natural and a magical explanation for what happened, then it's reasonable to assume the natural one is correct, given that there is no strong evidence that any supernatural events have ever happened in all of human history. When a magician pulls a rabbit out of a hat, it's possible he did it using supernatural powers, but if he could have used a trick, it's fair to assume that's what really happened.

It's a good idea to look up the prophecies people bring up. Check the verses before and after and pay attention to exactly what is said. A lot of prophecies miss the mark, and a real god should be able to get it right.

In Isaiah 9:6 we have the prophecy familiar from Handel's Messiah: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Wasn't he called Jesus rather than these other names? Was he head of the government? If we read on in Isaiah 11:1 we find a messiah (a fruit from the stump of Jesse) who (verse 4) "with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked." This doesn't sound like the Jesus I've heard about. Verse 14 says people will be swooping down on the shoulder of the Philistines. This is unlikely even if they're talking about some future second coming.

But while it's good to be able to debunk these claims, we should keep in mind that these aren't likely to be the reasons the Christian believes. They're just arguments used in hopes of influencing us. They themselves probably wouldn't be impressed if a Muslim said the Koran contained a similar fulfilled prophecy.